Is check-in over?
I have been thinking about writing this for the past few weeks and my buddy Om gave me the shove to do it yesterday with his post “FourSquare’s Crowley on Facebook, Check-in Fatigue & the Copy Cats”
This post is absolute killer to write given my past positivity and possible giddiness on location based services.
Om tells Foursquare founder Dennis Crowley “that he has a problem – even hardcore users and fans like me are getting bored with Foursquare and finding it hard to constantly check-in”
I think the problem is way bigger than that, way way bigger, I dont want to “check in”, I want to know right now if a friend is near me, if I am buying something that is cheaper nearby by or are there any specials nearby. This just isnt happening at the speed the rest of technology is moving at. Check-in just isnt enough for me, it make no change to my mobile behavior and ”John recommends the ribs” is not enough for me to keep trying to love location at the moment.
There are a couple of interesting things coming though and one of my “likes” is MyTown which allows me to check into products as well as the normal location stuff, whats interesting if I check into products I could be offered better deals on those products, this is a really interesting developement in G-Lo.
Am I down on location?
Absolutely not, I believe that it will become part of our daily live but we really need to get the industry and @dens to move along now.
31 comments...What do you think?
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Twitter: shanekny - On location: The advent of FourSquare and the second coming at Trust Tommy
Twitter: shanekny
Once you get past the loose competition element there is very little incentive for users to keep checking in. Badges just don’t cut it in a network for adults.
Some (Irish) venues are really getting into the spirit of things by offering special offers but really its become a chore for people now.
I am not damning the concept but I feel the space needs to be explored further to give people a real reason to check-in again.
Well said!!
Check-in services like Foursquare, Gowalla, etc. have yet to figure out the use of the vast amount information that they generate. Another problem is presenting the information in a useful format so that there is no “check-in fatigue” for the listeners.
I guess, they are trying to recreate the Twitter magic….get people hooked on to the service and then they can figure out the usage
Hate to say I told you so
All joking aside I have never got check ins. Sure you can get a free pizza or coffee or some badges but it just doesn’t appeal to the man in the street. I am sure foursquare has a bright future and will grow massively over the next year but I just cant help thinking with them that they should have taken the $170 million from Yahoo or Facebook and run!
What does excite me is Facebook location. If they witch that on and make it dead simple for the normal man in the street to “like” physical places then that opens up endless possibilities.
@Niall
will ye go way oul that
you’re turning into the greatest Facebook fan boy ever
whats with the witches though?
Let’s remember one thing, Foursquare and Gowalla are essentially game based social networking. Who can check in the most, rack up the number of badges all that malarky. What it’s not is a serious tool to engage users to business.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if you need to stand between the retailer and it’s customer then there’s a problem.
Where’s the real joy in being the Mayor of somewhere and all you’ll get is a free side salad on a Wednesday?
There’s no ‘problem’ with checkins, but more so what these apps and services are used for. The concept of checking-in , earning points and badges , and owning locations appeals to my inner gamer. Scoring points and taking over venues is enough for me, cos it’s fun. Theres nothing else needed. Same with Xbox achievements and all that, the reward is in the earning, not the result.
The problem breaks down trying to convert this into a earner for a more main stream audience. People don’t want to check in the same way they don’t want to sit in front of a xbox all night. Just not wired for the fun aspect. And vouchers alone wont do it.
What I think needs to happen is the check-in part needs to be transparent.
Instead of opening a dedicated 4q app and checking in, If I was to tweet or make a facebook post from a known location or close enough to one, that could be a check in equivalent. This is more likely as people are already posting about meeting friends, uploading a photo, or liking a location.
This way, as you tweet about having coffee with Pat, then perhaps Starbucks will offer you a voucher for your next visit as the msg is tagged with a location. Or perhaps it could be a “like this venue” for a discount , spreading advertising through your stream for cheaper products.
So untill there’s greater integration with existing social networks, location based services like foursquare will be nothing more than a fun game. I’ll continue to check in to compete with strangers, nothing else needed but seeing those points rack up, but others who were hoping to start reaping rewards will start to get bored.
Aloha Pat, I think you hit it on the head. I just started using Foursquare when I picked up my Droid X and having to launch the app, go to locations, find where I am, enter it if it’s a new place… yeah, it’s getting tired. Too many steps, very little benefit for the effort at this point AFAIC.
Active Checkins is one better than passive signins. But it still doesn’t capture all social behaviors. We don’t want to share our location to all our friends. There are times, we would like to tell a white lie to one or more person. To wit, just imagine all the attendees of a surprise party dutifully reporting their location to the guest of honor.
Similarly, I may not want some of my friends to know that I am in the same neighborhood as them, especially if I have lied to them earlier. And the list continues …
Stream of consciousness here.
Active check-ins were never going to take hold. I realised this when I held the first check-in app on iPhone (which was Brightkite) and again when I was playing with Locle. I could see that check-in by itself was boring as hell which is why I was keen to see collaborations with actually useful services like Lookaly – which again needed more glue to make it useful.
What I consider to be the best example was actually Twinkle. Twinkle built a location-based system into their Twitter client ages before Twitter implemented Location. The service wasn’t perfect but it permitted discovery of Tweeters in my chosen radius which helped build a community of us early adopters. It was buggy, a little too precise but it was ‘kinda’ passive as it happened while you were Tweeting anyway.
I see a need for a passive, coarse, integrated location system.
Problem #1, Active vs Passive. So we need a passive system – move the intelligence into the cloud with services built on, for example, Aepona’s OneAPI which allows for REST-based apps built upon the location capabilities of the cell network itself. Whether this is geofencing or just location reporting, there’s a heap of potential on the passive side. The cell network is sufficiently coarse to allow for this. But you need to build location into other services to make it truly passibe. See below.
Problem #2, Precision. The data is sometimes too precise, sometimes too coarse and either way we have no fine-grained control over the accuracy. For instance, I do not mind if my wife has my position mapped to the nearest metre. But I’m less interested in my boss having that level of precision. And the people on Twitter? Well, I’m happy if they know my position on a town-by-town basis.
Problem #3, Integration. So we have location in Tweets and soon in FaceBook. So what? Why not Location in SMS. Why not location services in Email? Instant Messenger? Wave? Even Skype. A Location field in email would lead to some amazing AR apps. Like being able to look through the Magic Lens and see emails whizzing over your head because you knew where they were coming from and where they are going to. And heck, verified location may prove to be an effective spam filter. And while you’re integrating with my email and my address book, why not integrate with my calendar?
The issue here is that everyone wants to own “Location”. They’re all competing (and spending millions) for a prize which may contain a jackpot or a dud. They all want to be seen as the #1 or #2 so they can leverage a quick acquisition from GAMYF or whomever. And whomever is #3 will be desperately trying to create a standard for location services so they can leverage a technology/PR win. They all want to be able to get hold of the advertising dollars that Location will unlock – and that’s the sign of a completely flawed business model in my opinion.
At the moment it’s a mess.
For me, Check-In was never “in”. Attaching location to Twitter was a smart move but overshadowed by paranoia about privacy. The same will happen in Facebook but due to the fact they’ve just hit half a billion clueless idiots, they will likely succeed to a degree. I would reckon that now is the time to be providing location monitoring services to Divorce Lawyers.
As the only commentator here holding down 100 Mayorships, I want to say that 4Sq tips have normally been helpful, that 4Sq has taken me up 7th Avenue in NYC while recommending inexpensive bagels and pizza and that 4Sq’s cross-venue promotions have pulled me into places just because I’ve been nearby.
However, I use 4Sq more for the “venues” screen and in that regard, it’s given me some helpful ideas when in new places.
I also use Latitude’s layers to show options for free wifi and decent coffee.
Foursquare has some corrupt data but on balance, after more than 1000 check-ins, I’d have to say it’s given me more serendipity than carrying around a Lonely Planet book.
First a confession. I’m not a 4sq (or similar) user, however, I like the idea of location-based services and retain some dwindling hope.
I don’t see a compelling case for mainstream adoption just yet. Perhaps concerningly, the early adopters aren’t necessarily seeing the case either, meaning that cynicism will replace hope and this could end up another technical white elephant.
To Matt’s point above, acquisition should be a consequence of the objective of developing location-based services rather than being the objective itself.
I’m not interested in whether someone has just entered a particular office building, railway station, sandwich bar, etc. or whether they’ve been elected mayor of somewhere. I am interested in the value that I can derive from my locality as it connects to my needs.
Obviously, applications need to create a matrix of supply, demand and proximity. As a user, this would begin to interest me, but otherwise, 4sq and the like will remain gaming playthings.
I think the thing with Foursquare, Gowalla etc. is that their true value won’t be realised until business uptake increases. In my opinion business use (for offers etc.) will be the tipping point for your average ‘normal’ user to want to use these platforms. At the moment they are very much being driven (in Ireland at least) by a core group of Social Media active individuals who have some sort of industry tie. The next 6 months will see an explosive growth or rapid decline of ‘public’ use in my view.
I see hundreds of people using Foursquare in Ireland. Most of them don’t blog and they’re definitely not tweeting their check-ins. So I think there’s a lot of pent-up interest in location-based services.
I also think it’s a little early to call time on the idea of people who want to share their movements. I’ve decided to head into different pubs and coffee shops because I knew ahead of time that someone inside owed me a cuppa.
It’s only a GAME folks, nothing here, move on… It’s only a GAME!
Why are people treating 4SQ and Gowalla like they are some sort of social media… it’s a GAME!
Yeah right. “just a game”
Go watch Jesse Schell talking about ‘outside the box’ at DICE or Jane McGonigal at TED.
Here’s the Jesse Schell talk:
http://g4tv.com/videos/44277/DICE-2010-Design-Outside-the-Box-Presentation/
which you should find either inspiring or terrifying.
And this is the Jane McGonigal talk which is only inspiring:
http://www.ted.com/talks/jane_mcgonigal_gaming_can_make_a_better_world.html
“I dont want to “check in”, I want to know right now if a friend is near me, if I am buying something that is cheaper nearby by or are there any specials nearby”
Pat, this is exactly what Apple’s Siri acquisition will provide using their ultra deep scientific IP. Think “AmbientWeb”.
@AAinslie
hi Alexander,
This is what you can do ‘right now’ with cell based geofencing. Which is why I’m a fan of OneAPI
I’m not a 4sq user, but I’ve been watching my husband using it for the last 6 weeks or so. One of my first questions was, “can you see what’s around here and recommended as good?”
When he said no, I asked “then why bother?” I don’t see the use apart from seeing who in your friends is near you – and as was pointed out, people won’t opt in if it becomes passive check-ins, sometimes you don’t want people to know where you are!
I’ve only started using 4sq in the last few weeks since Gravity for Nokia N97 added it. Prior to that it was too much of a pain, usual lack of Nokia apps again. Nice that it integrates into my Twitter client (as it does on Tweetdeck), I think that’s the progression, use ‘shout’ more and make it more social rather than blind check-ins.
After three weeks the novelty is wearing thin, I find myself using it to see what time I arrived at work, what time I got home at etc. Maybe they should add event planning?
Bernie and others have good points. I guess our small town does not yet have a critical mass of users and enough information and locations for it to be really useful. And it won’t unless folks like me contribute to the database. I can see it having greater value as I travel to unfamiliar locations that are well documented in 4Sq.
Ivan’s event planning suggestion is excellent. Unfortunately I haven’t found an Android app for Dopplr yet.
You’ve a broken link there Pat..first paragraph.
interestingly, I was comparing the traffic on 4SQ + Gowalla the other day- and both seem to be on the way back down.
http://siteanalytics.compete.com/foursquare.com+gowalla.com/
Thinking as a consumer (and sometime 4sq user) :-
Why do I use it?
To become mayor of a place I frequent – competitive element, with possible benefits for Mayors. Needs to have better benefits for Mayors in more locations though….
To find out where my friends are. Like Bernie, I have been able to change my plans “on the fly” when finding friends close-by. This would certainly benefit from an automatic check-in and/or push location feature. And possibly a “busy” / “available” status flag for each person?
To get recommendations / discounts on nearby products / services. This needs far more work, and maybe a groupon integration service would work here too?
The key element is to enable push into twitter or facebook as an automatic option rather than having to input location thru a separate App. The settings of auto check-in and location sharing should drive significant usage and engagement between users.
Finally, 4sq needs to pick things up a notch again. I think they’ve maybe taken their eye off the ball recently and growth / usage will continue to plateau or fall unless they can bring new and innovative functionality to the service.
Hi Pat
I enjoyed your post. I have always seen Checkins as building a new digital loyalty based program. The downside socially is once you check in your friends dont have time to get to where you are.
That is why we are building Pleet, which means Plan and Meet. Pleet is all about near time planning. Most people want to quickly plan for the next few hours and perhaps get some added value on that (whos about, what deals are around). Finding the vlaue in the near time is key, a future checkin is what you can call it.
Its early days for us but we are working hard on this right now at http://www.Pleet.me and Diary.com.
Keld
I was so glad when Tweetdeck introduced filters. The first string I added was “4sq.com”.
Blessed silence.
I am not going to use a service that is so popular that the servers are unable to cope with the requests. It’s a waste of time. Google latitude is a far more interesting option.
I remember that same feeling when I used bright kite some years back. It’s not over, not just new anymore. When something is pronounced dead then you know it’s mainstream. Checkin is now a staple of the consumer loyalty program, as intended.
Only saw this post on a RT recently.
I’m a fan of G-Lo but as Richard says above I think it’s the optional “always-on” tracking services like Google Latitude that hold most potential.
Until “big brother” gets round to implanting a GPS in our bodies at birth.
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